Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/02/1994 09:05 AM Senate STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE
March 2, 1994
9:05 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Loren Leman, Chair
Senator Mike Miller, Vice Chair
Senator Robin Taylor
Senator Jim Duncan
Senator Johnny Ellis
MEMBERS ABSENT
All Members Present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 36
Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the State of Alaska
requiring that candidates for governor and candidates for
lieutenant governor receive more than 50 percent of the votes cast
to be elected and changing the term of office of the governor and
the lieutenant governor.
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 263
"An Act relating to municipal property tax exemptions."
HOUSE BILL NO. 280
"An Act adopting the Uniform Custodial Trust Act."
SENATE BILL NO. 303
"An Act relating to voter eligibility, voter registration, and
voter registration agencies; and providing for an effective date."
SENATE BILL NO. 280
"An Act establishing the Afognak Island State Park."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SJR 36 - See State Affairs minutes dated 2/17/94.
HB 263 - No previous senate committee action.
HB 280 - No previous senate committee action.
SB 303 - No previous senate committee action.
SB 280 - No previous senate committee action.
WITNESS REGISTER
Representative Mark Hanley
State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-4939
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HB 263
Karen Brand, Aide
House Rules Committee
State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-4451
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HB 280
Art Peterson, Commissioner
National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws (NCCUSL)
350 N. Franklin St., Juneau, AK 99801¶586-4000
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of HB 280
Laura A. Glaiser
Office of the Lieutenant Governor
P.O. Box 110015, Juneau, AK 99811-0015¶465-4084
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SB 303
Jeff Bush
Alaska Civil Liberties Union
175 S. Franklin St., Suite 318, Juneau, AK 99801¶463-4150
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SB 303
Craig Tillery, Assistant Attorney General
Department of Law
1031 W. 4th, Suite 200, Anchorage, AK 99501-1994¶269-5100
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SB 280
Neil Johannsen, Director
Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation
Department of Natural Resources
P.O. Box 107001, Anchorage, AK 99510-7001¶762-2600
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SB 280
Senator Fred Zharoff
State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-3473
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SB 280
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-12, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN LEMAN calls the Senate State Affairs Committee to order at
9:05 a.m.
Number 010
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up SJR 36 (GOV & LT GOV MUST RECEIVE MAJORITY
VOTE) as the first order of business before the committee. The
chairman notes that the committee substitute (cs) for SJR 36
changes the 50% requirement to 40%.
Number 020
SENATOR MILLER moves the committee adopt the cs in lieu of the
original bill.
Number 021
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, states CSSJR 36(STA) has been
adopted in lieu of the original bill. The chairman asks if there
is any discussion on the resolution or if there is anyone who
wishes to testify on it.
Number 026
SENATOR TAYLOR makes a motion to release SJR 36 from the State
Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.
Number 028
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, orders SJR 36 released from
committee with individual recommendations.
Number 031
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up HB 263 (TAX EXEMPTION FOR CERTAIN PERSONAL
PROP.) as the next order of business before the State Affairs
Committee. The chairman calls the sponsor to testify.
Number 035
REPRESENTATIVE MARK HANLEY, prime sponsor of HB 263 says the bill
will give municipalities more flexibility in their tax laws. It
does not require municipalities to do anything. Municipalities
will still have to pass any changes by ordinance.
What brought this situation to light in Anchorage is that while a
50,000 dollar motor home is taxed fifty dollars under the motor
vehicle tax, a 50,000 dollar private airplane is taxed 1,000
dollars. Municipalities have no option of exempting or partially
exempting aircraft. What the municipality of Anchorage would like
do is set a straight fee of a 100 or 150 dollars for a single
engine aircraft and 200 dollars for a twin engine aircraft. That
way, the municipality would not have to go through the assessment
every year, the appeals of the valuation, etcetera. The
Municipality of Anchorage thinks it will actually save one and a
half to three full time positions by doing this.
HB 263 would also apply to undocumented boats and vessels, pick-up
camper shells and canopies, and unlicensed atv's, snowmachines, and
trail bikes. Right now, if the municipality wants to tax these
items, it has to be at the mill rate, which means the municipality
has to go through the valuation process, send out notices, instead
of taxing these items at a flat rate.
Number 069
REPRESENTATIVE HANLEY states it also gives municipalities the
flexibility to craft tax credits or deferrals to encourage business
development. HB 263 is a flexibility bill, and it doesn't cost the
state anything.
Number 079
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there are any questions for Representative
Hanley. The chairman comments it seems to be straightforward and
a reasonable approach. The chairman asks if anyone in the audience
wishes to testify.
Number 087
SENATOR TAYLOR makes a motion to release HB 263 from the State
Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.
Number 089
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objections, orders HB 263 released from
committee with individual recommendations.
Number 094
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up HB 280 (UNIFORM CUSTODIAL TRUST ACT) as
the next order of business before the State Affairs Committee. The
chairman calls Karen Brand to testify.
Number 100
KAREN BRAND, Aide to Representative Moses states a trust is defined
as the care and management of property. Ms. Brand says there are
four important aspects of HB 280. They are, one, the trust will be
inexpensive to create; two, they are simple to create; three, under
the HB 280, the control of the property remains with the owner
until the time the owner dies or becomes incapacitated; four, they
are comprehensive.
Number 147
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if the present version of the UCTA (Uniform
Custodial Trust Act) is the same as the version in the last
legislature.
MS. BRAND replies it is slightly different from the version that
passed the house in the last legislature and was amended in Senate
Labor & Commerce Committee.
The chairman calls Art Peterson to testify.
Number 166
ART PETERSON, Uniform Law Commissioner, National Conference of
Commissioners on Uniform State Laws states the version currently
before the legislature is the same as the version that passed the
house, before it was amended by the Senate Labor & Commerce
Committee. This bill is supported by the AARP (American
Association of Retired Persons). A custodial trust allows the
person establishing the trust to retain a control that they
wouldn't otherwise have under normal trust creation. The great
advantage of this type of trust is its' flexibility. A trustee
cannot be forced to accept a trust. There are also several rules
set out for proper management of trusts by trustees.
SENATOR TAYLOR makes a motion to release HB 280 from the State
Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objections, orders HB 280 released from
committee with individual recommendations.
Number 235
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up SB 303 (UNIFORM VOTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM)
as the next order of business before the State Affairs Committee.
The chairman calls Laura Glaiser of the Division of Elections to
testify.
Number 240
LAURA GLAISER, Office of the Lieutenant Governor states SB 303 came
about after the president signed the National Voter Registration
Act of 1993. While there was some thought that perhaps Alaska
would be exempt, it is not. Ms. Glaiser and the Director of the
Division of Elections met with representatives from the Department
of Justice and the Federal Election Commission, and were assured
that Alaska was not exempt. Even though the State of Alaska sends
out voter registration applications with the permanent fund
dividend applications, we were told that was not enough to exempt
Alaska from the voter registration act.
The Department of Justice and the Federal Elections Commission
would not give the Division of Elections clear direction as to what
they wanted from the division, but assured us that they would sue
us if we did not comply. SB 303 was drafted in order for the State
of Alaska to comply with the spirit of the National Voter
Registration Act of 1993 without hurting the state. We are
increasing voter registration, as was the intent of the federal
act, and we are doing it in the least costly way possible.
In SB 303, designated voter registration agencies are the Division
of Motor Vehicles and those agencies within the Department of
Health & Social Services that administer food stamp programs,
medicaid, WIC (Women with Infants & Children), and AFDC(Aid to
Families with Dependent Children). The Division of Elections
believes that since the state does distribute voter registration
applications with the permanent fund dividend applications, the
state will be able to pass muster by also providing voter
registration applications through the previously mentioned
programs.
Ms. Glaiser states the Division of Elections has also added the
Division of Municipal & Regional Assistance within the Department
of Community & Regional Affairs to the list of agencies required to
provide voter registration services. The Division of Elections
believes this is a good agency to have offering voter registration
services because its' employees go out into rural communities; they
are bilingual, and so can assist those voters.
Number 270
MS. GLAISER says other provisions in SB 303 bring the state into
compliance with federal voting rights act. The federal act no
longer requires witnessing or notarization of a voter registration
applications, so the state has taken that out of its' requirements.
SB 303 also provides for basic cleaning up of state laws to comply
with the federal act. Also required in the federal act is
"noticing". That is, the state can no longer purge a person from
the list of registered voters simply for not voting. There have to
be several notices sent out to a person when that person does not
vote.
The Division of Elections has little "clicks" in its' system. If
a person signs a petition, the division will consider that a
"click", which will draw the person's name to the forefront of
voter registration lists. So that person will not be in danger of
having their name purged from the list of registered voters. The
division believes this will help keep district lists cleaner. The
state had some concerns that if it did exactly what the federal act
mandated, the district lists would be very clouded and heavy. What
the state will do, is roll the district lists back into the master
register, which won't affect the districts, and also will not
disenfranchise a voter.
Number 292
CHAIRMAN LEMAN thanks Ms. Glaiser and states that having another
federal mandate placed on the state, when in his opinion, the state
already has a system that is as good, perhaps better than what is
required, offends him. Another thing that bothers the chairman is
several years ago when a candidate submitted a change of address
form, it was not witnessed by someone at the time the candidate
submitted it. The chairman thinks that not requiring the
witnessing of voter registration applications opens the door up for
fraud. The last point he has, is if you cannot purge the voter
registration list, the percentage of voter turn-out will decrease
in relation to the total number of registered voters.
Number 330
MS. GLAISER states the federal government is not interested in
voter turn-out, only what states are doing to encourage voter
registration, not voter participation. It is true that this
legislation will throw off what voter turn-out looks like. But
that is something every state will suffer from.
Number 343
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks what happens if the state does not pass and
implement SB 303.
MS. GLAISER replies the state has been threatened with a lawsuit
from the Department of Justice. The state's concern is, because
Alaska is a voting rights act state, everything the state does in
regards to voting has to be cleared through the Department of
Justice. That threat is valid enough for the administration to put
this piece of legislation together.
Number 355
SENATOR MILLER says it appears the Federal Voting Rights Act has
much worse consequences for the State of Alaska than for the State
of New York because Alaska is a voters' rights state under the
Civil Rights Act of 1964, which New York is not. Senator Miller
faults Governor Sheffield's administration for not withdrawing
Alaska from the jurisdiction of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 when
it had the chance. As a result, the State of Alaska has to have
everything cleared by the Justice Department. Senator Miller
realizes that passing SB 303 is something the legislature must do,
however, it is his feeling that the Federal Voting Rights Act of
1993 is unprovoked good from Washington, DC which will have a lot
of serious consequences for the State of Alaska and other states.
Number 368
SENATOR TAYLOR comments he has bills pending in the Senate
Judiciary Committee for federal mandates relating to child support
enforcement, federal highway funding, and motor voter legislation.
Federal mandates are what we deserve when we put people like the
Clintons in Washington, DC. The state will continue to roll over
and act like a territory. Whatever state rights we had have long
since been lost. The next bill on the committee's agenda (SB 280)
is just one more piece of federal mandated crap to be stuffed down
our throats. We ought to just ask congress to control our
legislature for us, because they're controlling literally every
aspect of certain provisions within our laws. The Alaska State
Legislature is nothing more than a rubber stamp for Congress. We
are overseers on federal domain. We might as well be honest enough
to go out and tell the public that, instead of knee-jerking around
and trying to convince them that they're actually human beings
within the United States of America with the same civil rights, the
same opportunities, that people have in other states. We are
nothing but a territory. We never will be anything more than that.
This is simply another prime example of that. Commenting on his
speech, Senator Taylor says, "One more speech, a lot of sound and
fury signifying nothing."
Number 386
SENATOR MILLER asks when the state will again have the opportunity
to get off the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
MS. GLAISER answers she believes it is fifteen years from the last
opportunity, but she will check on that.
SENATOR MILLER thinks it is 1996 or 1997, but he fears this
legislation would remove the state's opportunity to get off the
Civil Rights Act by lowering the percentage of eligible voters
participating in elections.
Number 395
SENATOR TAYLOR expresses concern that negative comments made today
in the committee hearing not be taken as umbrage by the Division of
Elections or the Lieutenant Governor's Office. Senator Taylor
thanks the Division of Elections and the Lieutenant Governor's
Office for their work on SB 303. He supports the bill at this
point, and thinks it is the best thing to have come out of the
Lieutenant Governor's Office since the Lieutenant Governor took
office.
Number 405
CHAIRMAN LEMAN thanks Ms. Glaiser for her testimony and calls the
next witness.
Number 406
JEFF BUSH, Attorney for the Alaska Civil Liberties Union thanks the
committee for scheduling SB 303 because it isn't often he gets to
testify in favor of something these days. The American Civil
Liberties Union, of which the Alaska Civil Liberties Union is a
branch, places national priority on this type of legislation. The
committee may have hit the nail on the head in regarding that this
legislation may have impacts on a national basis that are very good
in terms of voter registration, but may in fact be irrelevant in
Alaska. Mr. Bush says he is testifying only to say that this
legislation may be good, if only to avoid litigation and additional
expense. As Senator Taylor stated, SB 303 is probably the best for
which we can probably hope. As a result, Mr. Bush encourages the
legislature to pass SB 303. He thinks it is a good piece of
legislation in terms of what is being required of the state,
irrespective of the pluses and minuses of how the national
legislation affects Alaska.
Number 428
SENATOR TAYLOR asks that SB 303 be moved from the Senate State
Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.
Number 429
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, orders SB 303 released from
committee with individual recommendations.
Number 431
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up SB 280 (ESTABLISH AFOGNAK ISLAND STATE
PARK) as the final order of business before the Senate State
Affairs Committee today. The chairman calls representatives from
the Department of Law (LAW) and the Department of Natural Resources
(DNR) to testify.
Number 439
CRAIG TILLERY, Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law states
SB 280 was introduced at the request of the governor and is
supported by the governor. SB 280 is also supported by the Borough
of Kodiak, the City of Kodiak, the Kodiak Chamber of Commerce, the
Kodiak Visitors' Association, most of the commercial fishing
operations and organizations, tour operators, and all the citizens
of the Kodiak area that he has been in communication with. The
reason SB 280 is before the legislature is the land that is
outlined in yellow on the map that has been submitted to the
committee was acquired through the Exxon Valdez Trustee Council
with restoration funds. It was acquired as part of the Trustee
Council's imminent threat process. Which means it was land that
had to be acquired quickly or something was going to happen that
would possibly make the land not available for sale at a later
date.
Of the imminent threat process, there were only two parcels of land
that stood out as highly valuable for restoration purposes: those
were Kachemak Bay inholdings, and the Seal Bay portion of Afognak
Island. As you know, Kachemak Bay has been purchased and is now
part of Kachemak Bay State Park. The Trustee Council then moved on
this portion and acquired this section down here (Mr. Tillery
points to map).
Mr. Tillery states that this was originally proposed by the U.S.
Department of the Interior (DOI); they wished to acquire this land
for the DOI to connect to refuge properties on another area of
Afognak Island. That was unacceptable to the State of Alaska and
the State Trustees; they did not want more federal land in that
area. The state was able to prevail on that point with the help of
the Attorney General's Office and the Department of Law. The
United States then agreed to allow the state to have first shot at
acquiring this land. The agreement is if the state purchases the
land and puts it into a state park designation within one year, the
state will acquire title to the land. If that does not happen,
then the land will be conveyed to the United States Government.
The acquisition of this land by the state occurred on November 23,
1993, so the state has one year from that date to designate that
land a state park. If it does not do so, that land will pass to
the United States Government.
Number 470
MR. TILLERY states SB 280 provides for this land to be a park. Mr.
Tillery refers to the map to explain which land will be included in
the park. Marmot Island will not be included in the boundaries of
the park.
Number 483
MR. TILLERY states the trustees insisted that the existing uses of
the island be allowed. Hunting, fishing, trapping, and limited
commercial use is required to be permitted. However, limited
commercial use must be consistent with restoration purposes. What
is intended by "limited commercial use" is guiding operations and
those kinds of activities. We want outfitters to be able to go in
there, we want hunting guides to be able to go in there, to the
extent it is permitted by the state boards of fisheries and game.
If this becomes state land, then those activities will be
permitted.
Mr. Tillery says it is supported by some citizens of Kodiak because
they like parks, while other citizens support it because they do
not want any more federal management of land in Alaska. It has,
however, had pretty much unanimous support from citizens of Kodiak.
We believe SB 280 will be good for the environment, good for the
business community of Kodiak and the southern Kenai Peninsula, and
it will be good for the State of Alaska.
Number 495
SENATOR TAYLOR asks what valuation was placed on the timberlands.
MR. TILLERY responds that information can be found behind tab 12 in
the report submitted to the committee. The chart on page 5 of tab
12 indicates that the timber value of the Seal Bay unit was
appraised at about 36.5 million dollars. Another portion of the
proposed Afognak Island State Park has virtually no timber value.
Another portion of the proposed state park has already been clear-
cut.
There are some roads through the land. Some of those roads may be
necessary to get to timber operations outside park lands. The
state is part of an existing road use agreement. We are working
with Afognak Joint Ventures to insure that roads necessary to their
operations are kept available to them. Otherwise, the sellers will
be required to comply with the Forest Practices Act and put roads
to bed that aren't needed for other purposes.
Number 514
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks about a phrase on page 5, Section 41.21.187,
subsection (b) which states, "Lawful use of a weapon in the Afognak
Island State Park shall be allowed except in areas that may be
closed for purposes of public safety by regulation by the
commissioner of natural resources." The chairman asks what
instances Mr. Tillery can think of where an area might be closed to
lawful use of a weapon for purposes of public safety.
MR. TILLERY says he would prefer to defer to the Department of
Natural Resources for that question. He cannot think of many
options where that would be needed, unless it was in an area where
shooting simply wouldn't be safe.
Number 522
SENATOR TAYLOR says the only use that is intended to be stopped is
the use for which the land was selected in the first place.
MR. TILLERY responds that when he spoke with the sellers of the
land they said the land was not traditional land and was not
traditionally used by the natives, but was selected for business
purposes.
SENATOR TAYLOR comments business purposes means timber harvesting
purposes.
Number 524
MR. TILLERY says the native corporation told the state business
purposes. The native corporation's view is that with this sale,
they will have accomplished their business purpose. There is a
statement in the report to the committee from the native
corporation stating the use for which the corporation intends to
use the money, which is sustained, local economic development,
rather than spending the money on essentially a lot of out-of-state
loggers to come and cut our land, put in round logs, and export
them to the far east.
SENATOR TAYLOR says the native corporation could have easily built
mills on their own land; no one ever required them to sell all the
raw lumber to the far east.
MR. TILLERY responds it's true it was not required, but that is
what was happening.
SENATOR TAYLOR asks why that was.
MR. TILLERY responds he does not know.
SENATOR TAYLOR says he does not know either, and most of the
logging operations in Southeast went broke selling lumber to Japan.
MR. TILLERY states, in this instance, the native corporation has
acquired a substantial sum of money with which they hope to be able
to go through sustained development of lodges and other types of
similar activities.
SENATOR TAYLOR asks what damage was done to this land by the Exxon
Valdez oil spill.
MR. TILLERY replies the shorelines were oiled and there were a
number of marbled murrelets, black oyster-catchers, and other
animals that were killed.
Number 538
SENATOR TAYLOR asks how creating this park would restore this land.
Number 539
MR. TILLERY responds the scientists who have been advising the
state indicate that protecting the habitat, particularly of the
marbled murrelets and bald eagles, would allow those species to
regenerate their populations. They nest in trees in the area. In
addition, protecting this area puts less stress on sub-tidal and
inter-tidal biota. There is an analysis under tab 8 that indicates
the potential for benefit is high for bald eagles and marbled
murrelets, moderate for anadromous fish, black oyster-catchers,
harbor seals, harlequin ducks, and inter-tidal and sub-tidal biota.
SENATOR TAYLOR says that doesn't have a thing to do with the oil
spill.
Number 547
MR. TILLERY states those species listed in the analysis under tab
8 are the species that experts analyzing the oil spill indicated
suffered injury. Most of them suffered significant population
level injuries.
Number 549
SENATOR TAYLOR asks why the state is paying a price for this land
based upon logged values for an area that the people of Alaska will
never be able to utilize for logging.
Number 552
MR. TILLERY responds the state is paying a price based on log
values because that is what the seller is willing to sell for. The
seller would prefer to sell the land to the state, leave the trees
standing, they still make the money, and the animals are still
restored. We believe everyone wins in this case except Bruce
Babbitt (Secretary of the Interior); he loses, he doesn't get the
land.
Number 559
SENATOR TAYLOR asks why Bruce Babbitt cares. The land will be
locked up exactly the same by us as it will be by Bruce, doing
Bruce's work for him. He will lock up the land exactly the same
way as the state.
Number 560
MR. TILLERY replies that is not the case, and suggests the
committee let Mr. Johannsen of DNR answer that question. Mr.
Johannsen can tell you how DNR intends to manage this, probably in
a way substantially different from the way Bruce Babbitt would
manage it.
Number 561
SENATOR TAYLOR notes that on page four of the report the appraiser
states, "It is my opinion that the Kachemak Bay Timber was over-
valued."
MR. TILLERY states that comment is from the review appraiser from
DNR, not the appraiser of the land. DNR's appraiser believed that
the timber had been over-valued. What happened with the sale
price, was the state paid 38.7 million dollars. The total property
was appraised at 41 million dollars. In addition to the Kachemak
Bay land, the state received Tonki Cape, essentially as a donation,
from the Seal Bay Timber Company, which was valued at about 11 or
12 million dollars. So the total value of these lands is in excess
of the purchase price.
Number 585
SENATOR TAYLOR says he doesn't have further questions but he finds
it disappointing that native peoples of Alaska, who fought to
accomplish a lands settlement, are selling their property. Their
goal within that lands settlement was to acquire title to real
property, so that they could become self-sufficient. Senator
Taylor says he would really love to see what number of
shareholders, who own this land, are who are currently on welfare.
How many of them actually have real year-round jobs? He would like
to find out what the economy is really like out there. How can
anyone in their right mind in this legislature justify taking land
away from private owners so that we can lock it up so no one can
earn a living on that land. Excepting a few backpackers guiding
someone. The native corporations selected this land for a purpose.
That purpose had something to do with their native rights. Now
we're allowing them to sell the land back to the government. The
government is buying them off of their land. He says he agrees
with Mr. Tillery: it is just a win-win situation. The native
corporation is going to get all this money. Senator Taylor wonders
if the natives in the area will end up like the natives in Kake,
where there is the highest suicide rate of any place in the U.S.
for two years. He says the state will end up with more land that
can't be used, one more park.
So the question is, do we run it, or do the feds?
MR. TILLERY says that is the question.
Number 585
SENATOR TAYLOR asks why he should spend taxpayer's dollars to
continue to participate in this...
TAPE 94-12, SIDE B
Number 593
...waste of a resource that was selected so that human beings could
make a living. If someone wants to waste resources, why don't we
let the federal government waste their resources on it. Senator
Taylor says he doesn't think Mr. Johannsen has enough money in his
budget at DNR to even do a good job of emptying the garbage cans on
the Kenai Peninsula. But Senator Taylor is supposed to believe
that somehow in the future his budget is going to be big enough to
take care of additional responsibilities?
Senator Taylor states he is not just sitting and looking at these
pieces of paper; he has hunted and walked the land and driven the
logging roads. What Mr. Tillery is suggesting is a travesty. Our
people on that committee (the trustees council?) should be removed
for even considering purchasing real property to lock it up because
some eco-looney is concerned about the oiled beaches. How do oiled
beaches have anything to do with the right of the native americans
who own that land to earn a living on it? Senator Taylor says it
is a pay-off to tie up Alaskan land.
Number 574
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there are any more questions of Mr. Tillery.
Hearing none, he asks Mr. Johannsen if he would like to take the
hot-seat.
Number 568
NEIL JOHANNSEN, Director, Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation,
Department of Natural Resources says he appreciates Mr. Tillery
warming up the committee before his opportunity to testify
(laughter all around). Mr. Johannsen states the Department of
Natural Resources (DNR) came late into the process of setting up a
state park on Afognak Island. In his conversations with Mr.
Tillery and then Attorney General Charlie Cole, Mr. Johannsen
simply offered to accept the land if it was the legislature's
desire that the land become part of a state park, because the
option to do so seemed more desirable than turning the land over to
the federal government. Mr. Johannsen says DNR came to the
conclusion, after some discussions on the subject last summer, that
they would support SB 280.
Number 556
MR. JOHANNSEN says DNR envisions managing the land passively. DNR
is not in a position to actively manage the area. It would be a
park with a small "p". However, contrary to what one sees in much
of the federal Interior Department conservation units, state
managed parks are open to any number of uses. It would not be open
to timber harvests, but hunting, fishing, trapping, and some
limited commercial activities would be permitted.
Mr. Johannsen points out that the nearby Shuyak State Park, created
in 1984, has been a pretty successful unit. DNR was able to build
five public use cabins in the park. The cabins are full all summer
and get a lot of use in the fall and early winter by deer hunters.
Number 542
MR. JOHANNSEN says that, in answer to Chairman Leman's earlier
question about the control of firearms for public safety purposes,
refers to areas such as Totem Bight State Park, Harding Lake
Recreation Area, and near public use cabins. Public use cabins
have a quarter-mile radius around them in which discharge of
firearms is prohibited for public safety purposes. That is the
intent of the language on page 5, Section 41.21.187, subsection (b)
of SB 280. Mr. Johannsen says he does not have much testimony to
add to what Mr. Tillery said, however, Mr. Johannsen hopes that at
some point DNR will be able to provide some basic recreation
facilities in the park.
Number 525
SENATOR TAYLOR asks Mr. Johannsen to clarify that the area is used
for deer hunters.
MR. JOHANNSEN answers the Shuyak State Park has heavy use by deer
hunters, however, he does not know the wildlife situation on
Afognak Island very well. He does believe that there are quite a
few deer, elk, and bear in the Afognak area though.
SENATOR TAYLOR asks Mr. Johannsen if he knows that deer and elk are
alien species to that island.
MR. JOHANNSEN replies he knows that fact.
SENATOR DUNCAN asks if the state transplanted those species to that
area.
SENATOR TAYLOR responds the federal government transplanted those
species to that area long before the state had a fish & game
department in the state that whined about that sort of crap.
Number 520
SENATOR TAYLOR asks what the state will do when the state finds a
large bug infestation in that area.
MR JOHANNSEN says he does not expect there would ever be much of a
beetle infestation problem in that area. Although he is the park
director at DNR, all his degrees, including his master's degree,
are in forestry. Afognak Island is mostly sitka spruce country and
a rainforest area. Mr. Johannsen says he has quite a bit of forest
entomology in his past and does not expect that area to ever have
the infestation problem one sees on the Kenai Peninsula.
SENATOR TAYLOR asks if we should worry about allowing the same
people that are wandering around in Kachemak Bay State Park to
wander around in Afognak Island State Park, because they might
bring the bugs with them. He is concerned that there is no
indication SB 280 would allow proper silvicultural management in
that area. So that if an infestation were to occur, DNR is
precluded from using commercial timber harvesting or thinning as an
option to do stewardship on this park, which probably should be
mandated.
Number 506
MR. JOHANNSEN says, with all due respect, that he disagrees. DNR
has been actively cutting a lot of trees this winter on the Kenai
Peninsula in agreement with commercial logging operations for
silvacultural purposes, so the previous statement isn't necessarily
true. Mr. Johannsen says his biggest concern is that DNR wouldn't
be in a financial position to actively pursue silvacultural
practices. Mr. Johannsen reiterates that DNR would only be
restricted from silvacultural practices in the Afognak Island area
for financial reasons, and not because of legal reasons. Unless
perhaps DNR entered into an agreement with a logging operation to
handle silvacultural operations on the island.
SENATOR TAYLOR states it is his understanding that in the agreement
signed relating to Afognak Island State Park, that would not be
allowed.
MR. JOHANNSEN says he would have to defer ultimate judgement on
that question to Mr. Tillery.
Number 491
SENATOR TAYLOR says that is his concern, that if the state is to
take over this area for management purposes, it should be able to
properly manage this land.
MR. JOHANNSEN states he came into the process at a fairly late
point, and is not entirely up on the conditions of the purchase
agreement.
SENATOR TAYLOR says he is offended it is a given that timber
harvesting is determined to be an adverse, negative thing to be
doing as concerns the other species.
Number 476
MR. TILLERY states the trustees council made a specific finding in
their resolution stating that existing laws and regulations are
intended under normal circumstances to protect resources from
serious adverse affects. However, restoration as a result of the
Exxon Valdez oil spill, in the view of the experts on the advisory
council, constitute a unique situation. The advisory council feels
that, in this instance, it is appropriate to have a prohibition
against commercial timber operations. Everyone on that council
believed that, under normal circumstances, logging operations can
occur, and can be of benefit to the land in some instances.
Number 466
SENATOR TAYLOR comments the only reason the state is spending money
for this land is to keep it from being logged. How does one then
not draw the implication that logging is somehow an evil that we
must spend money to prevent. Senator Taylor expresses concern over
Senator Zharoff representing Prince of Wales Island. Logging
enhanced the deer population of Prince of Wales Island.
Number 445
CHAIRMAN LEMAN says he shares some of Senator Taylor's concerns
about logging. The chairman does not equate logging to be an evil
exacted upon the land. If done properly, we can have logging that
is compatible with the natural state and the animals. The chairman
thinks SB 280 eliminates the possibility of generating some new
wealth and being short sighted in not allowing timber harvest on
the island. That is the chairman's main concern. Senator Leman
states he would like to have the capability to enjoy the land,
while also being able to extract riches from it.
Number 418
SENATOR ELLIS asks who was involved in SB 280.
MR. JOHANNSEN responds the persons involved were Commissioners
Sandor and Rosier and Attorney General Cole. The current trustees
are Commissioners Sandor and Rosier and Attorney General Botelho.
Number 408
SENATOR TAYLOR asks what happens to subsurface mineral rights.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN says that is the subject of an amendment Senator
Zharoff would like to offer.
Number 404
MR. TILLERY states the subsurface rights are currently owned by the
Koniag Native Corporation. Koniag wishes to sell the subsurface
rights to the trustees. The trustees are interested in acquiring
those rights. There do not appear to be any commercially valuable
subsurface resources. For land management purposes the trustees
would like to consolidate the subsurface and surface estate into
one fee. That is the subject of ongoing discussions with Koniag at
this moment.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. Tillery if there is any ideas as to what
the value of the subsurface rights would be.
MR. TILLERY replies there was an appraisal, and Koniag has made the
trustees an offer in the neighborhood of 2 million dollars. The
offer made was 56 dollars an acre. If the subsurface rights are
acquired, it would be done with trustee council funds.
Number 382
SENATOR TAYLOR says the trustees will pay 2 million dollars, and
then guarantee the federal government that we will prevent anyone
from utilizing the subsurface rights for any purpose. We will make
sure that no evil mining operation will take place, because that
might upset some little eagle. Senator Taylor is also concerned
with the amount of state funds that may be used in the future to
support Afognak Island State Park. Do we really need another
41,000 acres of passive parkland to manage?
Number 365
MR. JOHANNSEN says the state probably has about 40 units that are
passively managed. That's not to say they do not get a fair amount
of use. Distasteful as it might be to some people, Mr. Johannsen
says, SB 280 is really a state's rights issue. Maybe, in terms of
long-term financial impact to the state, maybe the land should go
to the feds. But the state does manage park areas differently than
the feds. The state's management approach is more permissive, from
the standpoint of commercial operations and hunting and subsistence
activities. Mr. Johannsen says it is superior to have DNR manage
the area rather than the U.S. Interior Department.
Number 350
SENATOR TAYLOR asks what the state is spending on Shuyak State Park
at this time.
MR. JOHANNSEN says the money the state makes from renting public
use cabins in Shuyak State Park pays for the management of the
park. Mr. Johannsen thinks the state spends about 20,000 dollars
per year to manage Shuyak State Park.
SENATOR TAYLOR asks if DNR is planning to build public use cabins
in Afognak Island State Park.
MR. JOHANNSEN answers he would like to do that. Public use cabins
would be a good use in that park.
SENATOR TAYLOR asks if that wouldn't be the only use of the park.
MR. JOHANNSEN replies he does not know, but the Seal Bay Area would
be an excellent place to have public use cabins. Public use cabins
are certainly of benefit to the local economy. He thinks Uyak Air
in Kodiak will tell anyone the five cabins in Shuyak State Park
have been great for their business.
Number 336
CHAIRMAN LEMAN announces there is an amendment that has been
distributed to the committee. The chairman asks Senator Zharoff,
who suggested the amendment, to discuss the amendment.
Number 334
SENATOR ZHAROFF says he has recently become aware of the
negotiations to set up Afognak Island State Park. The question now
is whether the legislature wants this land under state management
or federal management. Senator Zharoff thinks a number of
legislators who have both management systems in their district
could recognize the difference in management styles. Before
redistricting, Katmai National Refuge was in Senator Zharoff's
district and he received numerous complaints regarding the
management there, particularly with the traditional users of the
area. Federal rangers were callous to the needs of the local
people which caused a tremendous amount of problems with hunting,
berry picking, and travelling through the refuge. If the land must
be under either state or federal management, Senator Zharoff would
rather see it under state management.
Senator Zharoff states a question did come up over the subsurface
mineral rights. The parties involved want to clarify that the
subsurface rights are part of the park system. This amendment
would clarify that Koniag is giving up rights to subsurface as well
as surface area.
Number 297
CHAIRMAN LEMAN states he does not have a problem with the
amendment, if that is all it does. However, the chairman is
concerned it creates a commitment by the state or the trustees to
pay for subsurface rights. Chairman Leman wants someone to clarify
that this amendment will not commit the state or the trustees to
pay Koniag for subsurface rights in the area being considered for
Afognak Island State Park. The chairman asks Mr. Tillery if this
amendment would create an obligation.
Number 290
MR. TILLERY says it is certainly not the intent of the amendment to
cause that obligation. It would only clarify what is in SB 280
now, which is: if the state acquires the subsurface rights to that
area, then it is merged with the surface and is part of the park.
This amendment does not commit the state to pay Koniag for
subsurface rights. Mr. Tillery cannot conceive of the state paying
for subsurface rights. The trustee council, however, may possibly
pay for it. He cannot imagine the state appropriating money to
purchase the subsurface rights.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN restates his question: that passing this amendment
would not create an obligation, on anyone's part, to purchase the
subsurface rights.
MR. TILLERY responds that is correct.
Number 281
SENATOR TAYLOR asks Senator Zharoff how many of his constituents
were employed and actively working at logging on these lands when
the Exxon Valdez Settlement Trustee's Council passed the resolution
shutting down logging in the area.
SENATOR ZHAROFF replies he does not know. There were people
working there though.
SENATOR TAYLOR wants to know how many people have been put out of
work and had to go on welfare, unemployment, and food stamps in
order to protect the poor little marbled murrelet.
Number 262
SENATOR DUNCAN asks to move the amendment for discussion.
Number 259
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there is any discussion. Hearing none, the
chairman asks if there is any objection to adopting the amendment.
Hearing none, the chairman notes the amendment has been adopted.
The chairman asks if there is any further discussion and what the
pleasure of the committee might be regarding SB 280.
Number 251
SENATOR DUNCAN makes a motion to release SB 280 from the Senate
State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.
Number 232
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there is objection to the motion. Hearing
objection, he asks the secretary to call the roll.
Voting in favor of the motion are Senators Leman, Duncan, and
Ellis. Voting in opposition to the motion are Senators Miller and
Taylor. The motion passes three yeas, two nays.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN adjourns the Senate State Affairs Committee meeting
at 10:29 a.m.
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